John Humphries
Health and Safety has become one of those phrases that strikes fear and loathing in all our hearts, bit like “political correctness gone mad” and all that. Well, the chairman of the Health and Safety commission himself, Bill Callaghan, has said “enough already!” An end, let’s have an end to the cotton-wool culture. He’s on the line, good morning to you.
Bill Callaghan
Good morning.
John Humphries
You’re sick and tired of hearing how petty health and safety is preventing Britons enjoying recreational [activites] - well, isn’t it your fault?
Bill Callaghan
Well, I think that what we are trying to say is that people ought to be protected at work and children ought to be protected on school trips, but when petty rules stop innovation, stop learning and stop adventure then something’s gone wrong, and that’s why we’re launching this campaign today.
John Humphries
Well, you say stop adventure and all that sort of thing, stopping, it’s stopped all sorts of things, hasn’t it? I exaggerate a little bit but kids can’t climb trees any longer and you can’t have hanging baskets in shopping centres…
Bill Callaghan
Well, you see John, there are too many myths around and that’s, we’re trying to nail some of these myths. The fact is that the number of compensation claims has been falling, not going up, our rules and guidance on school trips make it very clear that we want these activities to happen. You know, if our children don’t get a sense of adventure, if they don’t learn to swim now, they’re going to be at greater risk in later life. So, we’ve got to have a sense of proportion, John.
John Humphries
Well, indeed we do, you say they’re myths, but they’re not all myths. It is a fact that schoolteachers cannot, they’re afraid to slap a bit of suncream on kids on a hot day because they might be accused of something.
Bill Callaghan
Well, I’m not, as far as school trips are concerned, I’m not aware in the last five years of one teacher being sued because of something going wrong…
John Humphries
But it’s the fear of it, it’s the culture that we have.
Bill Callaghan
I agree there is the fear, and that’s why I’m glad that you’re giving some publicity to our campaign.
John Humphries
So what is the campaign exactly? What are you trying to do?
Bill Callaghan
Well, we’re trying to put forward what we think are principles of sensible risk management, to make sure people are protected, that’s what risk management is all about, but it’s not creating a risk-free society, it’s certainly not creating useless paperwork mountains, but it is about encouraging innovation, learning, and promoting a sense of adventure.
John Humphries
But isn’t it exactly that, isn’t it risk management that’s got us to where we are today? Because it has been over-interpreted. I mean, you give this remit to a particular bureaucrat - not all, of course they are not all the same - and they will over-interpret it.
Bill Callaghan
I think there’s a grain of truth in that, John. What we’re saying is that we’ve got advice on how to do risk assessment. We’re saying very clearly, you don’t have to write pages and pages of a risk assessment form. Bullet points will often do. And the fact is sometimes I think people have been wrongly advised and I’m very pleased that the Institution of Occupational Safety and Health, who represent Health and Safety professionals are very much on our side in this particular campaign.
John Humphries
So we mustn’t stop children throwing paper aeroplanes and playing conkers.
Bill Callaghan
Yes, and what we want to do is make children engage in activities such as school trips, adventure activities, sailing, rockclimbing, canoeing, because that’s good for them and it’s going to help them manage risk in later life.
John Humphries
Bill Callaghan, many thanks.
It’s strange: whenever you hear a Health and Safety “myth” - it turns out to be true.